Ep. 144: Foundational Practices
God Hears Her Podcast
Episode 144 – Foundational Practices
Elisa Morgan & Eryn Adkins with Michele Cushatt
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Michele: I can’t tell you how many people ask me how in the world can you possibly believe that God exists after all that you’ve gone through? How can you still hang on to Him? And that’s a very complex, multi-layered answer, but I can tell you, it’s a combination of nothing but God’s mercy. I think He’s hung onto me tighter than I’ve hung onto Him.
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Voice: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. Find out how these realities free you today on God Hears Her.
Elisa: Welcome to God Hears Her. I’m Elisa Morgan.
Eryn: And I’m Eryn Adkins, and Happy New Year! We are officially in 2024, and we wanted to start the year off right by learning about some spiritual practices we can start to lean into for those potential New Year’s resolutions.
Elisa: Michele Cushatt is a dear friend of mine who’s faced severe suffering, but in the midst of it, she’s learned how truly faithful and merciful God is. Michele has insight on unique spiritual practices that do more to strengthen the foundation of our faith.
Eryn: I can’t wait to learn about them. But let’s start by getting to know Michele during this conversation on God Hears Her.
Michele: If we go back in time, my, you know, my parents became Christians when I was only about five, six months old, and so even though my parents were brand new to faith, I’ve really never known life without faith being a part of it. And so, that’s one of the gifts for me, but you know, at the same time, it comes with its own challenges, right? And so, for the first twenty years or so, I had a fairly, relatively uneventful life of growing in faith, but it had been somewhat untested until I was in my early twenties, and without going into too much detail, I married a man, and we were in full-time ministry together. I was a pastor’s wife, and so, in many ways it just looked like the ideal life. Just, you know, all of my prayers had been answered, everything was perfect, until literally within the first month of marriage I realized that the marriage that I thought I had was a mirage. That there was all kinds of stuff going on behind the scenes that I didn’t know… And so, what followed was six very difficult years of marriage in ministry with a whole kind of secret life that was happening behind the scenes, and it culminated when I was about twenty seven, and I was holding my brand-new son, he was only one-and-a-half years old at the time, and I remember it was December 19th, six days before Christmas, and I watched my husband, who now is a former pastor, drive away for the last time, and overnight I became a single mom, divorced, former-pastor’s wife. Now, you know, without giving any context to that, you can imagine how that completely turned my…
Elisa: Just ripping your identity, just label after label off…
Eryn: Yeah.
Elisa: Yeah, woof. Oosh.
Michele: All of it, right? And not to mention faith, right? So, I have this lifetime of faith that I believed that if you follow God and you…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … you did the right things, and avoided…
Eryn: Right.
Michele: … the wrong things, that you would have a life that would go well.
Eryn: Yup.
Michele: And it looked like that was happening until all of a sudden, boom. Nope, it’s not. And to have that complete… really destruction of life as I knew it really turned my faith upside down, because what did I then believe about God? If I could pray to God, cause I had been praying to God for a… a godly spouse for years and years and years, if I could pray and then God could seemingly give it to me and then yank it back like a carrot, right? Then what does that say about God?
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: And what does that say about me? So, that was the very first foray into this whole wrestling with this kind of faith thing. What does faith look like, not in theory but in reality?
Eryn: Yeah.
Elisa: Oh, painful. Painful.
Michele: So, you know, wrestling through all of that, came to discover that God was faithful even though I didn’t understand what was happen, He still continued to show up and be faithful. Worked through that season, eventually met a man at church who was a single dad, and we thought hey, wouldn’t that be fun to, you know, be the Brady bunch and blend our families together. It couldn’t be that hard. [Laughter.] Man, blended family, I had no idea. I thought you just kind of put people together and everything would be fine. I mean, we were basically healing what had been broken, but what I failed to take into account is you can’t throw five people, two parents and three boys, who had gone through the wreckage of divorce, you can’t throw them together into one house and expect people not to get hurt. Right? And so, in the years that followed, wrestling through stepfamily and blended family, not to mention the stigma in church environments, right?
Elisa: Right.
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … and there is, let’s just be clear. There is a sigma about those of us who do not have traditional, ideal families, right?
Eryn: That’s right.
Michele: And wrestling, talk about another identity crisis, you know. Who am I if I’m not, you know, a mom and a wife of a really happy family. We were not happy…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: Right?
Elisa: And add to that now, then you continue to move forward but you face some… a couple of different challenges that came out of the blue.
Michele: Yeah, so, then right when we thought we were getting over the hump of blended family and kind of getting into our groove, and that, by the way, was about ten years in. Not to discourage anybody out there, but it takes a while…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … on an ordinary Tuesday before Thanksgiving, I sent my boys to school, my husband was getting ready to go to work and I got a phone call from my doctor. And, you know, to back up a little bit, the week before I had gone in to see an ENT doctor, ears, nose, throat doctor cause I had an ulcer on the side of my tongue that wouldn’t heal. And so, you know, went in just to see if I could get a mouthwash or something to take care of it. On a whim, he did a biopsy, but he told me… gosh, several times Michele, you have nothing to worry about. You’re thirty-nine years old, you’re healthy, you exercise, you eat good, you have nothing to worry about. Until that Tuesday before Thanksgiving when he called, and his first words were… Michele, I’m sorry, it’s not good. And that day I found out I had squamous cell carcinoma of the tongue. Cancer of the tongue.
Elisa: That’s awful.
Michele: I was a non-smoker, you know, again I ran half marathons, did triathlons, super healthy, I… none of it made sense. And on top of that, I made my living as a communicator, as a speaker…
Eryn: Wow.
Michele: … I trained speakers, I travelled all over the US. You know, all of a sudden now, suffering starts to feel personal…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … and I know there’s people who are listening right now that feel like God’s picking on them, right? And so, you go through these things. I pray for a husband, and then I get married and divorced. I pray for my kids, and then I end up with a broken and blended family. I pray to do ministry and use my gift of speaking for the kingdom, and then I end up with mouth cancer. And all of a sudden now, it’s like, what… what is going on?
Elisa: Yeah.
Michele: Does He have it out for me?
Eryn: That’s such an honest question that I think a lot of people wrestle with but are scared to admit that.
Michele: How do you not? And I do want to validate that here. I… It’s just, cause sometimes we think when we have those doubts, you know, we add shame on top of shame…
Elisa: That’s right.
Michele: … Like, not only do we question if God’s mad at us, but then we shame ourselves…
Elisa: That’s right.
Michele: … for even thinking that way…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … And let’s just be clear, we’re human, and so, how would you not feel this way as you’re going through these things. Some of these responses and questions are normal human response to suffering.
Elisa: And God can handle them…
Michele: Yeah.
Elisa: … and when the enemy just screams at us you’re such a lousy believer, you know, it just… slams us further down into that hole, but God can handle that honesty.
Michele: Yeah, that’s why we’re talking about it here. We just have to tell the truth about what it’s like. So, you know, fast forward through that, that initial cancer diagnosis was cancer caught early, they said they got it all, we put cancer on the shelf, never expected to see it again, except they were incorrect. Cancer came back two more times over the next four years. Without going into too much detail, let’s just say by the third time, the cancer was so aggressive and advanced that they gave me no promises of a cure. They gave me about two weeks to get my affairs in order. I was actually on tour with Women of Faith when the third diagnosis came, so I had done twelve events in arenas that fall, and in the middle of that is I got my diagnosis and I couldn’t finish the last two events, cause they needed to get me into surgery. Did a nine-hour surgery where they took out two thirds of my tongue, cut open my neck about eight inches where they took out lymph nodes, my submandibular gland, all this kind of stuff, cut open my arm, leg, you know, basically I was Humpty Dumpty. They took all the pieces apart, took out the cancer, put me back together again, gave me a few days in the ICU… a few weeks to recover, and then they did… started doing external radiation and chemotherapy, and let’s just say the surgeries were easy compared to what I went through with radiation and chemo…
Elisa: So long and so much.
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: Yeah, and when you start burning the face and the neck… you know, inside and out, the consequences are massive…
Elisa: Yes.
Michele: … just massive. And by the time all was said and done, I was on the brink of death for several months, but it really took me more than two years to come back to life. And to this day it’s a miracle that I’m here at all.
Elisa: It is, and… and Michele, that’s not all.
Michele: No, that’s not all.
Elisa: Another… another layer in that you became a mom again…
Michele: Yes.
Elisa: … Tell us about that.
Michele: So, in between that first and second diagnosis, we got a phone call from someone who had twin four-year-olds and a five-year-old whose biological mom could no longer care for them. A history of addiction, abuse… and due to some connection via family, the call came to us basically saying will you take them? It was us or foster care. And, you know, in some ways I was eight months out from a cancer diagnosis, we had raised three teenage boys, which I haven’t even talked about the… chaos surrounding that…
Elisa: Right.
Michele: … and so, it didn’t make any sense. And yet, I had come through a season where I knew what it was like to wake up every day afraid, and these three kids had woken up every day of their life, for four years, afraid. And in the… in… the context of that, both my husband and I felt like what if we are really the people who can help them? And we made the decision within twenty-four hours, we drove to another state and we picked up twin four-year-olds and a five-year-old with a history of severe abuse-neglect. Brought them home and started parenting all over again. And… let’s just say, some ignorance is good… We had no idea what we were getting into, and although it’s been… the right decision, it’s been one of the hardest things that we’ve ever done.
Elisa: Things being right doesn’t mean that they’re easy and doesn’t mean that everything falls in place beautifully. I’m struck by all of this background, and… and we want to… we want to hear it, and there’s more. I know there’s more.
Michele: Oh, yeah.
Elisa: But it’s so juxtaposition against what God has taught you, and revealed to you, and wooed you into discovering about His character, so that now you are writing and speaking from this grist, from this whole of pain and His presence in it in such a way that you’re helping others access what they can have in Him. That’s a head scratcher, Michele.
Michele: Yeah, for me, too.
Elisa: Yeah.
Michele: I mean, I sit there and think sometimes I should have left my faith a long time ago…
Elisa: Yeah.
Michele: … like, from a human perspective, from purely a intellectual perspective, it makes no sense that I still believe in a good God. And I’ve had, I can’t tell you how many people ask me how in the world can you possibly believe that God exists after all that you’ve gone through? How can you still hang on to Him? And that’s a very complex, multi-layered answer, but I can tell you, it’s a combination of nothing but God’s mercy. I think He’s hung onto me tighter than I’ve hung onto Him, and I think that’s grace…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … and then, I also think that as much as the suffering that I’ve experienced has made me question and doubt, as much as I thought it would destroy my faith, it actually became the very things that developed it and strengthened it. Which is, I think, actually what suffering can accomplish if we can hang in there and let it. Right? It ends up becoming the thing that forces us to dig down deeper and get really clear about what we believe is true and what is not true…
Eryn: Yeah.
Elisa: You’re making me think about Romans 5 where Paul writes about, you know… embracing our sufferings because suffering develops perseverance, which develops character, which produces hope that…
Michele: Hope.
Elisa: … won’t disappoint us, and it’s a really interesting string of qualities that He threads together for us. You’ve recently written about spiritual practices… your writing is about a faith that will not fail. How did you get to that and… and what have you learned about spiritual practices that keep your face pointed toward God rather than turning your back on Him?
Michele: Well, you know, so many times when we think of spiritual… practices, we think of disciplines, it sounds like homework, right?
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: So, it sounds like we just need to do more. And let’s just be clear, you know, I’ve been the Bible-study girl, I’ve done all the studies, I’ve done the fasting, I’ve done the praying, I’ve done all of those things, and these practices are really not about doing more, it’s about being more present to what’s already been done for you. And I think this is really critical. When we talk about spiritual practices, it’s learning to be more present to what’s already been done. That God is the heavy lifter. Hang with me here as we talk through this. So, when Jesus is on the cross, His last words, you know, right there at the end, some of His last words were, “It is finished,” which the actually word is, “It is complete.” In other words, the work has been done. The big work, the big task, the big project, whatever you want to call it, the work has been done. One of our biggest challenges as humans following Jesus is we’re constantly trying to earn grace. We’re constantly trying to earn salvation, and this expresses itself in our suffering as trying to figure out what we’ve done wrong to deserve what we’re going through. We start to experience our hurts and our wounds and our things like that, we got to find somebody to blame, so we either blame God or we blame ourselves. Right? That does nothing to relieve our suffering. Right? We just become more frantic, so, for me with cancer the second and third time, I was constantly trying to prevent myself from getting cancer again, so working on my diet, doing all, you know, all… And there’s nothing wrong with being healthy, but in the back of my mind, I’m still trying to earn…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … a good life, I’m still trying to make it all happen. And these spiritual practices, it’s me trying to get really in touch with the fact that the most critical things, the biggest stakes in this life is not my health, not my kids, or whatever, it’s my faith, it’s my salvation, it’s my relationship with God. And Jesus already said, “It is finished.”
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: It’s done. And learning to rest in that and get really grounded in that is the substance of a faith that does not fail…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … Think in terms of a house. My husband’s a contractor, so we bought this fixer upper that looked terrible, it was in bad shape, had been vacant for a long time, it was a mess. Some people will come into that, and they would only focus on the cosmetic. They wanted to go and paint the walls and hang wallpaper, or hang up, you know, window treatments. My husband knew that what he needed to look at before we bought this house was the foundation. That’s what mattered. Who cared, all the paint, everything else, that could be changed. We need to make sure the foundation was good, and it was. And so, we could take care of everything else. What we’re talking about with a faith that will not fail is we need to stop spending so much time worrying about the cosmetic, and we need to get really, really grounded in the cement of truth.
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: And when we do that, that’s when we can endure horrible circumstances without losing our confidence in a good God.
Eryn: That’s right. How did you resist the temptation to not look side to side at other people’s life, family…
Elisa: Yeah.
Eryn: … faith, and stay really grounded in the truth of who God is, and what He has for you, and how He’s going to be with you in this suffering?
Michele: Well, first of all, you’re assuming that I did do that, that I did do a really good job of not looking side to side. I mean, the truth is is I’m just as insecure and vain as the next person. I’m just as hungry for a easy, happy life. I… I want to be center, and smarter, and I want to have less wrinkles in my skin, and I want, you know, all of that. That’s just… that’s human nature. I do the same thing. I have to keep coming back to the fact that really, what is the greatest prize? This is going to sound really hard, and this is not easy to swallow. At some point in time, and this is what I learned from my… am learning, not have learned, am learning through my years of suffering is that everything in my life can be lost. Everything. My… my health, my appearance, at some point the moisturizer is not going to work…
Eryn: Right.
Michele: … Right? We’re going to lose our appearance, we’re going to lose our health, our jobs are going to change, our location, our family. Everything in our life can be lost, except God Himself. Romans 8, “Nothing can separate us from the love of God, neither present nor future, neither life or death or height or depth, nothing in all of creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus.” The only thing that is a sure thing is God Himself, and so I have to continually reign myself in. I have to, even when I’m on social or I hear how I sound, my speech sounds so much worse than it used to and I get so vain about that, and I have to remind myself… what do I have that I cannot lose. And it’s God Himself. And the truth is Jesus said this in John 17, that “this is eternal life, that you will know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.” That is life. That peace is not a circumstance, it’s a person. That’s what it is. And when I remind myself, and I keep my eye on the prize and remind myself that what the real goal is, that it can’t be lost, that’s what grounds me, that’s the cement under my feet.
Elisa: You talk about the spiritual practices. Can you give us an example of how maybe one or two of them work to help you focus, not side to side as Eryn was… using that great illustration, but on the prize?
Michele: Well, I will start with a simple one that kind of fits with this whole… social media thing. I… I talk about the practice of contentment, and the practice of perspective, in A Faith that Will Not Fail. Robs us of contentment is kind of a need that what we really need to be okay is out there somewhere, and so we’re constantly chasing after it. It’s out there somewhere, it’s ahead of us, beside us, around us, it can be bought, it can be manipulated, whatever. And contentment is never external, it’s always internal. Right?
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: And so, being present to what we already have, a part of the practice of contentment is gratitude. You know, people talk… we’ve talked about this so much that some people roll their eyes, but the reality is we already have far more than we deserve…
Elisa: True.
Michele: … and this is where the practice of perspective comes in. As I sit there and think, and catalog my list of losses, and trust me, it would not be a hard leap to spend a day thinking about everything I’ve lost and to get myself into quite a tizzy by tonight, right?
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: About what a raw deal I’ve gotten. It wouldn’t take much effort. I can spend all the time thinking about all I’ve lost, or I can sit there and realize how incredibly blessed I am beyond belief, beyond what I deserve. For example, yes, I got cancer of the tongue three times. But good heavens, I have health insurance. You know how many people in the world don’t have health insurance? Or I… I live ten minutes from a hospital where I can go in and get emergent care. You know how many people throughout the world don’t have any medical access to any medical support at all whatsoever? On top of that, you know, I know I went through extreme physical suffering related to my cancer. Like, we’re talking I was on fentanyl and liquid morphine for six months, twenty-four hours a day. Like, we’re talking pain levels off the scale. Do you realize what a gift it was I had access to pain meds to help me endure? It would’ve killed me, like the kind of pain I have would have put me into shock. I… and we can go on and on. Yes, I have three kids, I’ve come from a hard story and it’s challenging sometime but look at me. I’m in… Douglas County in Colorado, I have access to community resources, I have a local church, I have access to the internet where I can look up resources. So, what I’m saying this practice of perspective, and it sounds trite, it’s not, trust me, some days it’s hard to do, but I have to remind myself that what I choose to look at becomes how I experience life. Where I choose to put my focus becomes the reality of my experience, and I am grateful. I choose to focus on the fact that no, I wouldn’t have ever wished for cancer, and gosh, I… I hope I never get it again, but what a gift it is that God allowed me to be in this place and… time and have access to the resources I have…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: What a gift it is that He allowed me to know Him. There’s so many people that don’t even know that there is a God who loves them. And I can go on and on. Those practices. Again, do you see how it’s… it’s not so much about homework, it’s really staying present to the reality of what is already true.
Elisa: Thank you for that illustration you gave us. I think we all can pause and think about the perspective that you’re offering and how it changes us.
Michele: Let’s take it one step further, and this ties with the practice of community…
Elisa: Okay.
Michele: … and this is so important for all of those of you who are listening who have lost something, that you feel like has disqualified you. My speech is obviously not what it used to be. And Elisa, you remember me before my speech was altered, and so I sounded very different…
Elisa: Yeah.
Michele: … I was on international podcasts with millions of downloads, I had a very different voice. You can google and hear what I sounded like before…
Elisa: Yes. Yeah.
Michele: … It’s out there. It’s a very legit loss. Like, I find myself having conversations with my neighbor, and I’m spitting on her cause I can’t control that. That’s embarrassing, you know? It’s not… my vanity is wounded by all of that…
Elisa: Yup.
Michele: … I had a good friend of mine that texted me while back… was travelling in Florida speaking, and happened to be in an office, and over the… the speaker system, the radio was playing whatever, and all the sudden she heard a voice doing a thirty-second clip, commercial, and it was my voice. How did she recognize it was me? It’s because now I have very unique speech.
Eryn: No.
Michele: … And she heard my voice, she leaned in, immediately texted and said I heard you. I would have never known it was you but, you know, you have such a unique voice…
Elisa: Oh my gosh.
Michele: … and it occurred to me…
Elisa: Yeah.
Michele: … that my speech actually doesn’t disqualify me from speaking, but actually, because it’s so different now, people lean in. I’m not one of a million, I’m just, like, one of a kind.
Eryn: That’s right. Right?
Michele: But that is true for all of us. The things that we think disqualify us, the things that we think that make us broken, actually, and this is something that’s the miracle of the gospel, end up becoming the very thing through which God reaches out and touches humankind…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … And then the thing that we thought was our loss and devastation becomes packed with meaning and purpose, because in the hands of God it becomes a place of ministry.
Eryn: How do you allow yourself to hold space for grief, but then also shift your perspective?
Michele: It begins by understanding that they’re not mutually exclusive. Grief and joy are not sequential events, they’re simultaneous. In fact, the book… A Faith That Will Not Fail, I open with the practice of lament. And the whole reason I opened with the practice of lament is because I think we’ve done a very poor job as a Christian community allowing each other to grieve…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … Right?
Elisa: Right.
Michele: Lament is a practice of worship, just like singing praise songs is. Lament is worship just like going to church is. Lament is a way that we kind of crawl up on our hands and knees, bloody as they are, to the foot of the cross, underneath Jesus’s bleeding body, and we mourn the reality of our condition. Right? It’s simply giving voice to the reality of that. There are still days I cry about what I’ve lost. And I don’t feel guilty about it. Because I believe that God mourns my suffering even more than I do. I do believe that with all my heart. And we need to start, first of all, giving ourselves permission to grieve, but also giving each other permission to grieve. There is no shame or lack of faith in admitting that this life hasn’t turned out quite like you imagined. That’s not a lack of faith, it’s just telling the truth.
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: And God is a God of truth, so we can very clearly say this is not what we want. I mean, Jesus… cried over Jerusalem. “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how I have longed to gather you.” Jesus was mourning the reality of our condition…
Eryn: Yeah.
Michele: … We see Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane lamenting the fact that He was going to suffer. He did not… it was… He was not a masochist, He was not saying bring it on, He was mourning the suffering. As Christians, though, again there’s that sense of we don’t mourn without hope, and so it’s a kind of messy, simultaneous tension that we have of grieving our current condition and yet hoping for our future redemption. It’s like Job as he was mourning throughout the whole book of Job and he said, “But I believe. I know that my Redeemer lives. I know that my Redeemer lives.” And I can sit here right now and tell you that my physical pain is with me every day, but I am telling you right now, oh my gosh, I could stand up on my desk right now and shout this: I know that my Redeemer lives. I know that He lives. He sees me, He is coming for me, and He’s going to make all things new. None of the suffering will be wasted, I believe this with my whole heart. And if it took all the suffering for me to get to this place of confidence in my Redeemer, then it was worth it. This is not… just a show. This is not just a podcast, we are not getting on to make people feel good. This is real, this is true, for the person who’s listening right now that really, really doubts that there is a God who loves them, I promise you, I promise you, I promise you that our Redeemer lives. He lives. Jesus said, “I will not leave you as orphans, I will come for you.” You do not have to get your act together to be worthy of Him coming for you. He’s already done the heavy lifting, He’s already done the work. Nothing can separate you from His love. Hang on, He is coming for you. And there is coming a day and a time that He will make all things new.
Elisa: Michele, someone is going to ask how you are now physically. You know, what is your prognosis, and just so we have that to… to share. Can… what can you tell us?
Michele: Well, I can tell you I have been cancer free since 2015 now, so…
Elisa: That’s a good run, girl.
Michele: … That’s eight years, I can’t even believe that. Look at that, eight years, it is a good run. I’m taking it. That said, I still go to the doctor every year, probably will for the rest of my life, I’m never completely free of that. I’ve had so much radiation, so much treatment, everything else, that there’s always that risk of cancer coming back. And then I just live with the permanent, chronic, physical disability and pain of a body that’s just been ravaged. You know, I… I don’t know how else to describe it. So, yes, I’m cancer free. I celebrate that. It’s no longer the central focus of my life… the fear can still come and impact me, I still have days where [music] the fear sneaks up and I have to wrestle that to the ground again, and kind of tell the truth about my fear… but my life is no longer driven by doctor’s appointments and whether I live or die. I kind of feel somewhat like Paul, he… he describes this, he goes, I don’t know what to say. Part of me longs to go and be with the Lord, which is better by far. And yet, I know as long as I’m here, and I’m paraphrasing, I still have work to do. And just like Paul said that, I kind of feel the same tension. There are days I just long to go and be with Jesus. I just long to. I just… I… I can’t wait to see His face. And yet, at the same time, I’ve got a good life, and I have work to do, still, here. And so, I wake up every day going, okay, I’m still here. What are we doing today, Jesus? And do everything that I can, you know, to sit with people in hard places, and to embody the gospel as best as I can as a broken person until Jesus takes me home.
[Music]
Elisa: We are so thankful that Michele is with us. She has such a beautiful soul.
Eryn: I’m really glad we got to start the new year with her wisdom. Well, before we go, be sure to check out our website to find a link for Michele’s book, A Faith that Will Not Fail. And check out our newest God Hears Her blog post. You can find that and more on our website at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.org.
Elisa: Thanks for joining us. And don’t forget, God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His.
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Eryn: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Jade Gustman and Mary Jo Clark. We also want to thank Heather and Patty for all their help and support. Thanks everyone.
[Music]
Elisa: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.
